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MarketMania Cage Match: Jim Cramer vs. Ken Heebner

Posted by timothysykes on Wed 9th of Jul, 2008 07:33:25 PM
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Unlike most financial freaks, you know I like to stay faaaaaaar away for the economic guessing game, not because I don’t have opinions/do research on consumer spending, oil, housing, etc. but because I don’t pretend to be able to guess the changing time lags associated with pricing these issues into the stock market. Yup, that’s right, there are tons of time lags and we petty humans have no friggin idea.

So, I’ll keep making my pretty non-scalable 7 month 70% returns and let others whose business is scalable guessing games duke it out.

Tonight’s death match is between two “financial experts” who are polar opposites:

“There’s Always A Bull Market Somewhere” Jim Cramer who has suddenly started saying inappropriate/dangerous/emotional stuff like “I have never seen things this bad, Sell everything. Nothing’s working.”

vs.

“America’s Hottest Investor” Ken Heebner whose $8+ billion CGM Focus mutual fund (a favorite of GOTS Muddy & Mikity Mike The 13th) has been up 24% annually, on average, over the past decade, including 71% over the past year, who weighs in with “My view is we’ve probably seen the weakest period of economic activity.”

Hmmm, who’s gonna win? Let’s hear what you guys think…this should be interesting…entertaining…useless…(woahhhh Sykes, this analogy is really too close for comfort…I don’t even wanna write the point you’re trying to make!)

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  • marketGirl
    Tim
    You covered a lot of point up there..can you answer my questions bellow as well:
    1-as u know not everyone is restricted by SEC, therefore if there are more potential plays and good setups out there would you be sending the alert anyways so other can play it or your trades would be limited until you reach 25K ?
    2-What happened with the txt messaging alert ? do you have that or not? i think each person should have one email alert and one txt message alert.
    3-many people across the web think that your priority is not trading, just looking at your gains and plays shows that . it is not even about risk taking..it seams that as long as you can show a green color on your chart with about $200 gain you are satisfied.Your picks are great, but come on your exits are Ridiculous...either you have to get better in your exits or give people an option of signing up only for your entries for $15 a month..lol...
  • vo
    CGM Focus apparently not immune to the market. Down 10% in the last 4 weeks. Chart looks like the DOW.

    http://finance.google.com/finance?q=CGMFX
  • marketgrl, good questions, here are some answers:

    1. i send out alerts for my trades, and those will be interrupted by intraday meetings, etc because i really am a part time trader...the good news is ideal plays, if u watch my dvd, only co0me about a few times per week/month...everything else is just scalps, which i dont recommend for anyone

    2. gimme a friggin break about text messages, this is a new service, we got new features coming online every day...enjoy the new TIMalerts website...other stuff is in the works

    3. who cares what people across the web think, my trading really isnt even that important, read my book, u'll see i've always been a bad timer...its just to prove that i can pick em well, i' not one of the 90% of traders who lose and for others to learn from my successes and failures...also gotta remember trading is not my main biz, i'm just trading teacher, most of whom dont share their trades/track records openly...and who gives a shit about my exits--you gotta remember, i've learned to trade like a poor person since i'm building to the magic 25k so i'm overly protective...my 70% return truly is worse case scenario, but its a safer way to trader too...also remember, my exits wouldnt matter if i was free to jump back in--welcome to why i hate the pattern day trader rule so much.

    4. timalerts will never go down in price, i dont need specials or BS marketing tactics to get people to sign up, already have 200+ members in 3 weeks because people see i research/work/email/teach like no other in this biz, aka early jim cramer before he sold out
  • Bob
    are the google ads really not pulling in enough income for you? lol
  • boos, dvd, ads, subscriptions, its all ads up--monthly income has been steadily growing 10k, 12k, 15k, 20k, 25k....
  • Gburleson1
    Ken Heebner, if you think about all the negatives going against the economy, oil, housing, stocks dropping, inflation on food items, 2 wars spending 10 million a month.....think about it.. all of these negatives but yet the economy is still putting along in positive terriotory is really amazing. We are currently at a support level and we will soon bounce back up with in the next 3 months.
  • I still have Cramer Alerts and this is what he said today.

    "Dear Action Alerts PLUS Subscriber,

    The latest issue of Action Alerts PLUS is now available:

    Buy and Sell Points Are Key

    This is not a time to panic, but rather a time to stay disciplined and think about fundamentals."

    The new fundamental is follow Tim Alerts rather than Jim Alerts.
  • Randy
    inflation + credit crunch + low consumer confidence

    two of those three need to turn before the market does
  • Mike_13th
    "CGM Focus apparently not immune to the market. Down 10% in the last 4 weeks. Chart looks like the DOW."
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    You ever hear of "dollar cost averaging"?
    For 10 years it has worked amazing on CGMFX
  • younggunz
    wow kinda wish i had CGMFX as an option in my 401k plan. Might check it out if i start an IRA.
  • Cramer's a moron, and is leading his lemmings off the cliff. I used to respect him years ago as a guest on Squawk Box before he became some turd who lets his emotions spin out of control in pathetic attempts to create buzz around his theatrics and has become a good contrarian signal. Let's not forget that he has also jumped on the political bandwagon lately and will do whatever it takes in an election year to make the current administration look bad (although they've done a good job of doing it themselves) in order to make his liberal heros look like market saviors once they take control. Anyone who makes trading decisions based on some clown pushing sound effect buttons deserves to get burned. Heebner's proving that keeping a cool head while investing can make you a ton of money no matter what the market is doing.
  • Smoke
    UFgemini, I noticed this morning u were talking about LOW LOW penny stocks and i checked out your website. I got a few stocks that go up 100% then back down 100% multiple times everyday. NUBV is one I've made some money off of. The only reason i stopped trading NUBV is b/c my broker only allows whole cent sales over the internet. So i have to call everytime i want to buy/sell NUBV. Very annoying. But hey man give it a look. LOL i'm still holding 1,000,000 shares of NUBV now at the initial cost of 100$! For the MOST UNLIKELY chance that lets say NUBV becomes a real company some day and isnt just a scam lol and raises up a dollar or two....hmmm u do that math. And if not, i lost 100$! I'm broke now right??? lol well good luck on your 600-6000$ rebate trading.
  • Fantom
    sqnm losing support
    ezpw in play

    had a nice scalp on nwa yesterday
  • vo
    Mike_13th: You bet. And if he's averaging now and the market bounces he's going to do very well (which historically he has). I was just thinking it's tough to swim upstream in this market. Not tryin' to be a hater here!
  • Mike_13th
    Oh no,was not implying you were a hater at all.

    The thing is though if you can put a little away in this fund,say the same amount every month it really has been a gold mine over the life of this fund.
    In fact just on 6/30/08 this fund hit an alltime high.
    That big drop on 12/26 was when they paid out ex-dividends to us shareholders and it was huge.
    If you did not know CGMFX is one of few mutual funds that can short stocks also.
    Their biggest holding has been on the short side on WM
  • younggunz
    looking at that mutual fund more has me interested in moving my old left over ugma/utma funds into it. Right now its just sitting in a vanguard windsor II fund losing 15% ytd however its 10 was over 10% before this market slump. Not sure if I should take the loss or just let it rebound and move it later.
  • younggunz
    Was also thinking about cashing it out to use in my trading account. I have just been leaving it as a starter for my own kid's college fund.
  • Tony Ellis
    Heebner has been very successful but now he has to overcome the Peter Principal (perform well with $10 Billion and they'll give you $100 Billion.
  • vo
    Thanks Mike and Tony--great insight into that fund. I've been in the Kaufmann fund doing a few bucks a month since 1999, so I know how that "put it away and forget it" money can grow. Last few months on that fund have been far from stellar however.
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Long story short, wait for stocks that are extremely volatile - for whatever reason - and then aim to take small profits (between 10 and 50% within a few hours, days or weeks) here and there, either from betting on higher or lower prices (yes, you can make $ betting on lower prices, it's called Shortstocking (learn more HERE).

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TIM Trades

View All
Date Stock Buy Sell Net
Nov 19 AENY $2.80 $3.02 $1148
Nov 18 NLST $4.16 $4.40 $947
Nov 18 IMGG $1.42 $1.64 $2094
Nov 17 NLST $5.04 $5.59 $2195
Nov 13 VRMLQ $21.50 $22.97 $2901
Nov 11 EONC $2.61 $2.80 $687
Nov 10 EONC $2.74 $3.36 $9784
Nov 6 QXM $4.31 $4.80 $1936
Nov 4 COT $8.66 $8.88 $642
Nov 4 QXM $4.61 $4.89 $822
Oct 30 DDRX $25.70 $26.53 $812
Oct 29 CTDC $4.00 $4.42 $781
Oct 26 AWSL $3.24 $4.10 $2516
Oct 23 RODM $5.27 $5.23 $301
Oct 22 AMLM $2.69 $2.97 $820
Oct 22 USEG $6.12 $6.09 $85
Oct 20 CBOU $8.93 $9.06 $243
Oct 16 VRMLQ $16.79 $18.65 $2773
Oct 13 YONG $11.05 $11.66 $1202
Oct 13 NPHC $0.59 $0.71 $583
Oct 12 IMGG $0.60 $0.70 $682
Oct 9 ZAGG $5.50 $6.10 $2380
Oct 7 GVBP $0.03 $0.27 $702
Oct 1 NPHC $0.70 $0.85 $1482

Total: $98,094 (681%)